This month's answer is the actors whom have benefited so much by indie film -- which is not to say that the Indiewoodland has not benefited even more by these actors' presence. It has. But why were there so many super talented actors in the indie sphere ten years ago, and now the list of "names" seems so depleted or recycled?
We need to come up with ways to promote the work of "undiscovered" actors. There is probably no better judge of talent than the acting community itself. Similarly there is no better promotional magnet and promotional bullhorn than the acting community itself.
I am completely confident that there are as many good actors emerging now as there were back ten years ago, but there is a problem when even working filmmakers like myself don't know the new folk. I have always felt that one of the real draws of indie film was the discovery of new talent, both behind and before the camera. When we are not as familiar with an actor, it is easier to see them as the character they are portraying than the star they may later turn out to be. But the joy of discovery would lead you to think that audiences would be served a virtual parade of new faces, yet that parade has not materialized as of late.
Check out what ten years ago had to offer out of NYC alone: Steve Buscemi, Kevin Corrigan, Billy Crudup, Hope Davis, Rosario Dawson, Vince D'Ornofrio, Martin Donovan, Edie Falco, Paul Giamatti, Peter Green, Jared Harris, Phillip S. Hoffman, Michael Imperolli, John Leguizimo, Laura Linney, Julianne Moore, Rosie Perez, Parker Posey, Tim Robbins, Sam Rockwell, Paul Rudd, Mark Ruffalo, Liev Schrieber, Campbell Scott, Chloe Sevigny, John Turtoro, Jeffrey Wright.
These are just the actors I thought of off the top of my head. And I only put the ones that popped first (to my knowledge) in Indie film, not Hollywood, and those that really came of age in the last decade or decade and a half. And were from NYC. I know I have left a bunch off and I apologize for the slight. Remind me who they were and I won't do it again (or I will at least try not to).
But who represents the here and now? It's hard to have the same legnthy list: Jessica Chastain, Mark Duplass, Jesse Eisenberg, Ryan Gosling, Zoe Kazan, Anthony Mackie, Michelle Williams.
And I had to cheat to get to seven. Some aren't really even NYC anymore. Or ever were. And some have been working a long time already, not just emerging now. If I take it back ten years or so I can add Maggie Gyllenhaal, Emily Mortimer, Alessandro Nivola, and Peter Sarsgaard.
I think I had twenty seven on the old school list. That's pretty much a romp in any book: 27 to 7 (or maybe 11) Whassamattawiddis? Surely it can be fixed. I want to know who the new school is. Where can we find them? How can we make sure they get the good parts that launch them?
I think it is going to start with the old school really stumping for the new school. Not to put pressure on them, but it's time. The IFP's Gotham Awards has a Breakthrough Performance category, but why doesn't SAG? How come actors don't suggest other actors when they get cast (okay some do)? I don't think it is bad form; we need to know who will make all of our work really shine. How come there isn't some sort of organization that promotes the new wave?Damn, it doesn't even have to be organized; it can be personalized. The whole industry would benefit from this, even Hollywood. Here's hoping...
11 comments:
Maybe you missed the MTV Movie Awards last week. Zac Efron may not be an indie star, but I bet he would take a serious role in an indie in a second (if you could get him a script.) Does Michael Cera count? Kstew and the Twilight crowd - aren't they officially indie? Evan Rachel Wood.
There's a whole generation of stars, with varying degrees of talent, growing up on the Disney Channel. Didn't you find Summer Bashil on there? If I said I wanted to put Ashley Tisdale in a movie, I'd get laughs or "who?" or worse. In a kids movie, you could bet ten million or more on her. She's a superstar.
But it is very true, as you say, that there isn't that new generation of classically-trained (or trained at all) actors coming out of NY schools and finding their way into films. They must be out there, so why aren't they being cast? Discovering new actors is what indie film is all about.
Ted, I think the problem isn't the lack of actors or the difficulty finding them, but the unwillingness of "indie" directors, producers, and financiers to actually hire someone to be in their film who isn't already known.
If you look at your list of the actors from 10 years ago who broke in NYC, it includes most of the "go-to" list of talent that everyone wants to use in small films today to give their films a shot at an Oscar nomination.
The biggest and best supporter of new talent in NYC, aside from quality Off-Broadway theater, is the Law and Order franchise. In the past two years on Law and Order, I've worked with Michael Esper, Aunjanue Ellis, Andre Royo, Yolonda Ross, Bridget Barkan, Edwina Findley, and at least a dozen other extremely talented New Yorkers would could completely bring it in a leading role if anyone would just give them a chance.
The other big question is: how come someone can absolutely rock a film like The Visitor or Ballast, but then have a hard time getting hired in other stuff? And it's usually the non-white actors who experience this phenomenon.... It's hard enough for an actor to get a breakout part. Once they do, they often end up getting passed up for the next part by one of those indie A-Listers that you listed above.
I think you answered your own question above with the idea of producers and directors going to established actors they've worked with to get a heads-up about up-and-comers. That's a great strategy.
But I really think the bigger problem is that once these people are found, filmmakers need to find the balls to actually put them in their films.
Hey. Thanks for this post- I agree with your sentiments, as well as the comments posted. I am an actor and I have always been disappointed by the lack of support for indie artists. It still blows my mind that people are so covetous with their knowledge and resources. So I do everything I can to foster a community of sharing: I pass along casting notices to talented colleagues, and I offer myself as a resource to the many directors, producers and writers I come into contact with. I also run a career coaching service for actors, and part of my work includes engendering a spirit of community, and I also help them feel empowered to take control over whatever aspect of their career where they feel helpless or stuck. One of the ways I do this is through a monthly networking event/master class in NYC where we cover a specific topic on "the business" and then follow it up with a social event where actors can mingle with industry folks who are looking to meet actors. This included directors, producers and writers, but also included choreographers, vocal coaches, photographers, dance teachers, demo reel editors, musicians... just about anyone who wants to have an artistic conversation can do so at this event. It's intimate, laid back, and give artists a chance to practice learning what other people need and then seeing if they can deliver. I teach actors that this is the best way to network, and everyone seems to really enjoy the format of the event (plus the fact that the master class is by donation, and the networking event is free!)
I didn't intend this comment to be a commercial, so I won't mention my company's name or the event info (though you can email me at erin@erincronican.com if you are dying to know more.) I simply wanted to let you know that there ARE some organizations out there who are striving to do the things you are talking about. And I am thrilled to have found this blog so I can learn about what other people have been doing in their own little corner. Thank goodness for RSS!
As a side note: I learned about your blog because a production company I have collaborated with sent me your link, saying I should tell you about what I have been doing. So, just by posting this blog your are bringing forth the kind of sharing you were seeking. Awesome!
Jim-
I agree with you 100%, but is it really the filmmakers who don't have the balls to put them in their films, or is it the financiers who can't sell the film overseas without a star? I'd love to do a film without a star. It's been a long time since I made a film and the primary reason is that I need a star. That despite pretty low budgets.
I was wondering about that list of names Ted brought up, which could be a lot longer. (Just think of the Abel Ferrara films.) But wasn't that before the Indies got so caught up in Hollywood? Wasn't that a time when films were born and raised in New York? Where did those films get their financing from back in the early 90's? Weren't the budgets lower?
(btw, I wish more people would post comments here. It'd be nice to have a dialog about some of these things. I know a lot of people must read this blog.)
Very good points all around and of course I agree. There is too much too blame on the over commercialization and expectations of "Indie" film in these past 6 to 8 years in particular. Look at a lot of the films that the mentioned actors broke out of 10 years ago, many of them were small, bold, risky, creative visions that would not be financed today. There has been a loss of faith and lots of trepidation in the risks of exploring the less known and less proven. Financiers and Producers have in the latter part of the last decade have made formula "Indies" and became too obsessed with finding distribution with the bigger "Indiewood" distribution players, many of whom are now gone.
It is once again that all important time for writers and directors with bold new visions to push away the limits of control and get their films made however they can, beg , borrow, steal. We are at a time not too different from the late seventies and early eighties when music, art and film changed the world. Those with the financial and production ressources will eventually once again follow that lead and sow the seeds for a new batch of exciting films. The early creatives in this potentially new wave will be the "indie" heroes of tomorrow.
It is so unfortunate that the economic faith in the basics elements of story and vision has all but vanished in the last 5 or 6 years which has left us with many films with the same tried "indie" story lines and the same once truly " indie" actors playing them out. Change is in the air. The winds are blowing.
Ted
have to say ...it's what all of my teams are already doing...
after i left the networks and studios..I went and auditioned in 6 cities all unknown undiscovered ... and I had some very big union people angry at me. when we tried to cast union people the people who oversaw the unions crushed it.. (because LA and NYC constituencies did not want other cities to get benefit of exceptions to contracts for indie serial content)
there are many to blame for this situation...the old industry (including old indie film) is too jaded, too protective and too antiauated and big to turn this corner quickly.
Needed to be broken down and gone around...to reinvent...and bring them back in in a few years.
Overall, I think you all have valid points, but I wonder about Ted's original question. Did you put it out there just to get people to blog about it, or do you really have that question? Because speaking from a Black female indie actor's point of view it's a ridiculous question. As was pointed out by Jim, that list is made up of White actors. They can somewhat easily, or at least have a million times more opportunites to work and try out different types of characters than someone of color. You ask where all these wonderfal Indie actors are? Try right in front of you! I have several awards sitting in my house now from work I've done and to follow that work up has been like climbing Mount Everest. And I, and most of my friends, which are way more crafted than some of the actors you producers, and financers higher for these movies, are right in front of you. You've met me several times, yet, you probably have no idea of my name, or the work I've done. I know I've never been in one of your movies. Why? Not because I don't have the work behind me, not because I can't do the part, people get one thing in their minds and that's it. You've never "hooked" me up with work. I feel like the money people and the producers do not do their jobs to the fullest to look for talent that is right there in front of them. They get blinded just like everybody else by what's in magazines, who's with who, and who's using who. Then they go after the same people like a bad re-run and use them for their movies, where that actor or actress a lot of times will turn in the same performance that they've done in everything else they are known for. If say producers, and directors were able to possibly convince their money people to do something that NOT everyone else is doing, maybe there would be some freshness in film. Heaven knows pictures can be made for super cheap and us skilled actors that can make an audience feel something and keep them captivated in your sometimes, not so well written movies, may end up making $100 bucks a day, just like a SAG background performer, just so we can do what we do. Now how one is supposed to live off that, on top of people trying to do away with residuals is ridiculous. True, well known actors could help out in this way with suggesting not as known actors that they know, but it shouldn't be left up to them. Their job is to act. And sometimes, they just happened to have FINALLY stepped into that arena where they are noticed. Thank heavens for the Jim McKays, the Steven Soderberghs, the Lee Daniels, and people like Paul Thomas Anderson,that do use people that you haven't seen or don't always know their names. It makes you feel like there's a tenth of a chance for is. Without people like this, some of use would never work. 'Cause not everybody looks out. I have been lucky enough to keep it going somehow, but from starring in a movie and going down to auditioning for one line in a movie is ridiculous. Then time and time again going up against producers and directors looking for a name...talent not required. It's a huge slap in the face to people that do what they do and take it seriously. Thank heavens for organizations like Sundance that allow actors to get in on something from the beginning. It's at least one shot you may have at maintaining a part you may have helped develop. That's where I'm at now, and hopefully all will turn out well and you'll see that indie film on the big screen. And yes, there are stars in it. I'm not completely knocking the business side of things. We all know how things get made, but it's not necessary to have to fill every part in some of these movies with stars. If you still can't find any of these indie actors give me a call 'cause I have a script I wrote, and friends of mine that are those indies ones you can't find, already signed up for several roles. If you'd like to produce that you'll have some you don't seem to be familiar with and I will be a working indie actress again.
I'm wondering if there isn't a lot more other factors here than just having a list of up and coming actors, like the economy, or the changing landscape of the business towards new media.
Of course the indie filmmakers I think of are not the psueudo-indie filmmakers who can afford "name" actors, even when they come cheap or for free. I'm thinking of the ones who pretty much have nothing and what they end up with is who ever they can get, usualy close friends and family both in front and behind the camera. The former might be out of business right now.
The real indie guys aren't even considering the hotest new talent out there. They'd maybe be too embarrassed to ask someone who's had enough success to be known, to work for free. But more likely it's a matter of trust. Not that new up and coming actors aren't trustworthy. But if you're putting a year or more of your life on the line, plus the where-with-all you need to make a film, you're going to go with someone you trust and know, as a sure thing.
Trust is more important than talent. If you have a falling out with your great talent in the middle of production on an indie film, you're sunk.
So, what I would suggest to up and coming actors, with or without names or connections, is to get out and find the indie filmmakers and get to know them, so they can get to know you. Maybe even bankroll their films (contact me if you're looking for a project ;D ). If you can then build a trust with them, you'll have more than a shot. You'll be a sure thing. How to do that? I'm not exactly sure.
Another thought comes to mind, and that is the tide. In the 60s USC produced a number of future filmmakers who all went there around the same time and eventually worked with each aother and made each other great. This was Speilberg, Lucas, Coppola, Walter Mirch and the list goes on. They fed off each other but most importantly they trusted each other. I think film schools since then have turned out classes who try to emulate this model by hooking up and working together. But I think it has yet to produce as successful a crowd as the 60s USC guys. Why? I don't think there's an earthly answer. It's just the tide, and as the line in "No Country" goes, right now it's the dismal tide.
On this topic, just a day ago I received a note from Tom Blair (lead in my LAST CHANTS FOR A SLOW DANCE, 1977; SURE FIRE, 1991; THE BED YOU SLEEP IN, 1993), on whom a Google search will get a fistful of highly lauditory (and well deserved) commentary on his acting. I had written him to inquire if he'd be interested in one more, a kind of last hurrah for us. He had been working primarily in theater in the Bay Area last I knew. He wrote back that he quit acting 4 years ago, works as the stagedoor-man at the Geary in San Francisco, and between pension and job was able to keep afloat in expensive City. He said he wasn't interested in acting any more. I may try to dissuade him, but I doubt I can. Anyway following his roles for me, noted at the time as powerful, etc., nobody ever went to offer him a followup, etc. Alas. But then I also never was asked to do a music video, an omnibus thing, or anything at all.
I love this topic and really everything has already been said. As a director/writer/actress I had to find ways to get seen as an actress by creating my own projects! The upshot is that I now really love and enjoy doing all the above but it has not been easy. My wonderful producer who is also an actress almost drank the Kool aide of no one will make your film if you cast unknown actors! I fought and continue to fight for the best "actors" for the role, including myself and I'm happy to say that no matter what happens with my first feature I know that I followed my heart in a business that rarely supports the unknown. This is an amazing time especially in Independent film in that the rules really no longer apply and it will be interesting to see what happens throughout this year. BTW, if you are an actor waiting for a job, write it or get a writer and create your own project!
Only a minor quibble with this post but could you change Vincent D'Onofrio's name & tag to be spelled correctly (it's as I typed it not "Vince D'Ornofrio")
I'd give some shoutouts to younger actors he's worked with (when they were still kids) Emile Hirsch (who definitely has broken out into the mainstream) Kieran Culkin, Jena Malone (who was already growing in popularity before she worked with Vincent) & one of my faves Lou Taylor Pucci.
Did I also mention he worked with Elisabeth Moss in a tiny little film called Imaginary Crimes? And now she's a star & and Emmy Nominee on Mad Men?
Look to the child actors of the 90s not so much the ones coming out of the Disney or Nickelodeon factories but the ones whose parents are savvy enough to let them work on indie films.
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